Rooted & Rising: Growth from the Greenhouse

About Love & Addiction: A Story of Faith, Loss, and Perseverance | Part 1

• E's Greenhouse • Season 1 • Episode 19

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What does it mean to truly wait upon the Lord when your marriage feels impossible? Kate Robbins takes us on a raw, honest journey through decades of marriage marked by both beauty and profound struggle.

From their first meeting in Estes Park – where Michael's unexpected act of chivalry caught Kate's attention – to weathering multiple miscarriages, alcoholism, and near-fatal accidents, this conversation dives deep into how faith sustains us through life's most crushing disappointments. Kate's vulnerability in sharing how she once prayed to be released from her marriage, only to receive divine guidance to stay, offers a powerful testimony to God's mysterious ways.

"Just because a marriage is hard doesn't mean it's wrong," Kate shares, offering wisdom gained through years of both personal experience and professional counseling work. Her story illuminates the difference between enduring abusive relationships (which she explicitly warns against) versus navigating the legitimate difficulties that arise when two imperfect people commit to becoming one.

For anyone questioning God's presence in their struggles or wondering if their difficult marriage has purpose, Kate's journey offers both comfort and challenge. Her testimony reminds us that sometimes the greatest acts of faith involve simply waiting – trusting that the God who promises we'll "mount up with wings as eagles" is working behind the scenes in ways we cannot yet see.

Curious to learn more? Kate now serves as a licensed professional counselor and is available for remote sessions. Reach out to us for details.

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Denise Jackson:

Good morning, welcome to Rooted in Rising Growth from the Greenhouse. I am very excited. You know I always am excited to have my friends join me for a conversation. I'm so glad you're here and Kate Robbins is here today to talk about marriage and loss, and I don't know where God's going to take this, but we're happy to have you. Well, katie, I'm glad you're here. I'm glad to be here. Yes, why don't you just talk to me about, like, the beginnings of your marriage with Michael and like how y'all got together and then just go from there? We'll see where we go.

Kate Robbins:

Well, well, I was in college, going nowhere, and a friend of mine said she was going to estes park for the summer. Why don't I come along? Sounded like a great adventure, yes, great summer. And so I like in about three days I was ready to go, and that's the summer that I met my husband. He um, I had worked as a waitress all summer long and gone through some kind of not real pleasant things, one of which was a guy made a real inappropriate advance to me and this man that I had barely met confronted him and you know, trade women that way and that caught my attention because you know, that was the the early 70s and chivalry was kind of dead at that point in a lot of ways, and so that just really blew me away, and so we started communicating, talking that real seriously. But we went to a movie together.

Denise Jackson:

So was the man that confronted him was Michael? Yes, oh, because he was a young man at that time. But yeah, oh, that's great.

Kate Robbins:

Oh yeah, he was 20 at the time and I just could hardly believe that somebody who barely knew me. I mean, we worked together, so that was kind of the thing that drew us together. Then we went to a movie Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid, don't forget it. Bob Dylan was in that movie and we both were big Bob Dylan fans. We went in to see the movie and came out into the.

Kate Robbins:

This was in Estes Park, so anybody who's been to Estes Park may remember this old theater that was there. We walked into the entryway there and I looked at him and I said I really like that movie and he said I need to, let's go watch it again. So we both went to the bathroom and kind of acted like we were, just until I went into the, and that impressed me that he was so in the moment that he was, you know, there was no agenda, yeah, and so that was so fun, and so after that we just we really eventually decided we were going to get married. We um were so young, uh, when got married he was just barely 21 and I was 20. And we tried a lot of different adventures and had a lot of fun. We moved eventually to Brown College Station and lived there, and that's where I had my first miscarriage, and then I had another one.

Denise Jackson:

So talk to me about the miscarriage, the first miscarriage.

Kate Robbins:

Well, it was just devastating. And he was so simpatico I guess that he was I always had terrible morning sickness. He would get up and throw up and then I would get up and throw up, or vice versa. It's just crazy. I don't know if he was just so anxious about becoming a father, at any rate.

Kate Robbins:

So that first miscarriage was pretty devastating and the second one was almost like I felt pretty hopeless. So by the time and this was over a series of years, but by the time I got pregnant the third time, he was working in the oil field at the time and we'd lost a business that we'd run together and several really kind of tough things already by that time. But I think I was kind of off emotionally. And when I found out I was pregnant the third time, because we had been using protection and so I couldn't believe that I was pregnant, yes. And I said, michael, I cannot go through another miscarriage. And he said you are not going to do anything to my child, we're going to have this baby if it's at all possible. I will never forget that, because that was when I began to realize that a woman is protected by her husband and when we first were together. We had been very involved in a church, but by the time I had my second miscarriage we were not involved in any church. We were in a party scene, basically.

Denise Jackson:

So did that? Do you think that the miscarriages contributed to that? I do, I do. Did you just feel like where are you, god, in that situation?

Kate Robbins:

And Michael especially felt that he desperately wanted children. Michael especially felt that he desperately wanted children and when we had that second miscarriage it just kind of went off the rails for both of us a little bit and I, literally in my mind, I was ready to have an abortion. And he just no, absolutely not, Absolutely not. And that child came into this world just as healthy and big and strong. He was almost nine pounds. Oh, wow.

Kate Robbins:

Yeah, just a fabulous kid. And so I mean, through that process of birthing that child, I remember just thinking. You know, I cannot imagine what if, yes, you hadn't had him. Yes, and I mean to this day he still holds my heart. But at any rate, our marriage, I mean we always had this bond of deep, deep love for each other. But, michael, I grew up in an amazing family. My parents were both strong Christians. I grew up on a farm as a kid. I always had a job to do, but I was always praised for the good work I did. I was raised by a fabulous set of parents and a fabulous community related to half the people that lived in that area. So Michael did not have that upbringing. And you know you can say love conquers all but boy, sometimes it's a big battle.

Denise Jackson:

And there was a lot. God's love is what we should say. God's love does conquer all. Yes, and that's really yeah, but it may take a long time, and all of us, you know, we all go through seasons. I think of trusting that God will move in a situation and when he doesn't the way that we expect, it's the hardest thing. You feel like you're abandoned. You aren't ever abandoned. He's always holding us, but in the world it feels like where are you? Did you just leave me? How could this happen to me? Why are you so?

Kate Robbins:

silent? That's the question that I ask. What are you doing? Why are you silent? What are you doing? What are you doing why? And because of the woundings. I mean his parents had had a rough divorce and just lots of rough stories in his upbringing.

Denise Jackson:

But they taught him to be chivalrous, or something.

Kate Robbins:

His father was a military man and, oh my goodness, yeah, he knew how to be a gentleman, for sure, that's awesome. But they moved all the time. I mean it was a typical military upbringing. So he never really had a foundation, I feel. But he was, he did, he was a believer. That never changed really.

Denise Jackson:

I wonder how that happened.

Kate Robbins:

Was was a believer that never changed really, but I wonder how that happened to he. Was he a believer when y'all got married? Yes, but I mean our dates used to be balsam. That's oh, that's wow really. But yeah, I mean we were. I believe that was marrying a very strong christian and and I think that's the piece that I meditate on is when children are hurt and those hurts aren't healed and only jesus can heal them. Yeah, they continue to carry forward into the future and and cause, I believe, curses in the next.

Denise Jackson:

These curses that were heaped on that child didn't cause curses to follow in the next generation? And the next generation, yes. Unless you are able to realize, unless you bring them to Jesus. That's right, but you have to fight, you have to be able to say, oh, I'm damaged, I have these things that are broken in me, and that realization does have to come in. Just spending some time with the Lord, I think Then he can show you. But he can't show you if you won't listen.

Kate Robbins:

I agree with that 100%, and that means there's a scripture about open the ears, open the eyes.

Denise Jackson:

There's more than one because I read a new one this week.

Kate Robbins:

Yeah, there are, I mean, but it's just. That's very powerful, and to me, yes, there are many of us who are strong believers. The wounds that we carry keep us in that cycle, sometimes of just brokenness, and I don't believe that all christians are are meant to live any christians are meant to live that way, but only jesus can, yeah, heal it.

Denise Jackson:

Yeah, yeah, and I we choose to hold on to those things too. I think that's one of the things we choose to because it's like our protection. I remember as a young woman um, I really held on to being irish because I thought that justified me having a temper okay, and that temper gave me power in my mind that protected me from things that were scary or hard. I could just be angry and come out at you. I mean, I said that for years. I wish that's why I'm like this. But seeking that's the thing. You seek, the Lord. You don't know what you're going to find out when you seek.

Kate Robbins:

Him.

Denise Jackson:

And I was like I love the Lord, but I was so vocal about like he said you know, humble yourself. And I was like no, I was just like no, I'm not doing that. That's scary, I can't do that. I'm Irish, you can't be Irish, I'm Irish, you can't be Irish, I don't know. It took a long time for me to be trusting enough to be humble before the Lord, absolutely, and let Him have it all. And then that was the beginning of unearthing. So many things in my life that really I feel like came from generations before Absolutely and I probably passed on because it was after my kids were already growing. Right, but you can always break that barrier.

Denise Jackson:

And we do, we pray, I prayed, lisa prayed. But I also think that because they had it in some of those things in their lives, they had to choose to let go.

Kate Robbins:

And we all get that choice?

Denise Jackson:

Yeah, absolutely. But you can't do it without the power of God in your life. So if you're not spending time with the Lord, you can't, you can't, I couldn't have. I would still be saying I wish I would have been there, right.

Kate Robbins:

So and the other thing that I came to understand was not only the trauma and the brokenness Michael had a head injury when he was 10, almost died. That was a trauma that and I don't know if maybe he was always, but there is. There are people who are considered super sensitive ultra sensitive, I think, is the word and I've come to understand that he definitely had that. He, he was very easily hurt by things, not so much that people said and did to him, but when he saw other people hurting it just hurt him so deeply and so that was something I don't know that I appreciated early on either. He was always Kate. They need help, and financially we help people.

Denise Jackson:

That just— Might have given him as much or less, I mean or more than you did. Yeah, we went through some of that.

Kate Robbins:

Yeah, and we opened our home to multiple—I mean lots of kids stayed with us adults too, over at different times. I'm not saying that that's the way it should have been. In retrospect and I've told both my kids this is that I think you lost some of the energy and the focus that should have been on you because we were always trying to help all these strays that came in and that was just boundaries and you didn't understand boundaries.

Denise Jackson:

at the time I didn't understand that.

Kate Robbins:

So, at any rate, after we had the second miscarriage, it was rough for both of us and then Jacob came and just a healthy, strong, great kid and I had one more miscarriage and I was about to give up again. But I wanted, we both wanted a second child and that's four years later, we got a precious Sarah and that we both felt like it's complete, we've had our kids, we're not going to go through any more of this, but God was. He blessed us in many ways. However, in many ways the things that I've alluded to, these boundary things and we did make good financial decisions through the years. But the thing that really evolved when Jacob was three or four, michael took a job where he was working with some people who drank heavily and he became involved in that culture and that became decades long, heavy, heavy alcohol addiction.

Kate Robbins:

And through the years I had to make some decisions. I had gone to college and gotten a like halfway through, and then for a period of time, I worked over at A&E. I'd taken several courses there and I desperately wanted to get my degree and I took a job at Texas State for the specific purpose, so that it would be easy for me to do that and I would like to say it was easy. It was financially easy because you know you get a tuition break, but I was raising two kids and trying to go to school and working full time and it was hard. It was hard Like many alcoholics. Michael jumped from job to job and there was a lot of insecurity on his part. It wasn't that he was a deadbeat, but he would get dissatisfied and I quit, and that's a common pattern that I've seen in a lot of addicts. And then, at some point years later, he was actually diagnosed with bipolar disorder, which was not a surprise to me.

Denise Jackson:

Yeah, you've been living with it.

Kate Robbins:

I have been living with it and when I went well, that's another story. Once I graduated I'm going to back up. Once I graduated with my bachelor's, I thought I was done going to school. I just I can't do this anymore. But several people said to me, kate, you need to go back and get your master's. And I just thought it. I thought, are you kidding me? This is not even feasible.

Kate Robbins:

I'll never forget one morning because a man the day before had come up to me and he said I'm serious, kate, you really need to get your master's If you're going to stay working here at Texas State, because it's almost free. And you need to do that. And he was a good friend of mine and he was an encourager. So I was going by the silo it's a blast place, whatever on Ranch Road 12. And I remember saying at about Oakwood Loop, I said, lord, if you want me to go to graduate school, you're going to have to have somebody tell me because I need it. I need it in human words, yeah, I just can't go like you. And I looked up and I was driving by the asylum and that you know. It's about 15, 20 minutes into the university from there and I went to my office and I was starting my day and my boss came in and sat down in front of me and he said Kate, I need to talk to you and first of all, he never you know the whole power thing I do.

Kate Robbins:

I can still feel it in my bones. When I said that and I looked at him and I was like and he said you need to go back to school and get your master's in counseling, I just was speechless because it had not been an hour and that those words carried me through 11 years of working on my master's degree.

Kate Robbins:

And in the meantime, so many things happened in our life. Michael had an aneurysm that nearly burst. They did surgery, but he had a total breakdown. In the midst of all that, I lost my mother. So many things, so many things, and it caused me to be very delayed things and and that it it caused me to be very delayed. But I remember a very kind uh counselor, or you know the, the person who was the advisor for the program. I told her I need an extension because you're supposed to finish in six years. And I went in and I talked to her. I said I need an extension and she said I have found that the best lessons in life are learned very gradually. It's soaking into you. When somebody rushes through, sometimes they don't get it all, but you're just loving it. Oh, I love that. And it was words from god. I mean, she was a christian believer and I I just thought you, you know she's right, I don't have to be in a rush.

Denise Jackson:

So, when you just stepping back a little bit, when you started going to work on your master's, was Michael supportive of that? Absolutely, he was always supportive.

Kate Robbins:

He was always supportive, even through all of this stuff, even, yeah, even through all of this stuff Even, yeah, and I remember realizing and this was after my daughter was born that for us, for our marriage, to survive. A lot of times he had a lot of anger, as you can imagine, and I would just back off.

Denise Jackson:

I quit arguing with him ever.

Kate Robbins:

I didn't feel like that was worthwhile. It wasn't. But I remember realizing that if I got up and made coffee on a Saturday morning, he would wake up and he would be sober, and we would spend Saturday morning a lot of times till noon just visiting with each other. Oh good, so you kept your connection and you kept that yeah, when he was sober, and that's what quality time is my love language. Yeah and um, so that was is what kept me going and and uh and when did he?

Denise Jackson:

I know he went to um the program to stop drinking because when we knew him he had stopped drinking. So when did that happen?

Kate Robbins:

well he. He did a rehab program in the late 90s was that after the aneurysm or?

Kate Robbins:

um, no, no, um, the aneurysm. He, he got sober for about six months and then he started drinking again and I was devastated. And I have to say this I literally got down on my knees and prayed to God to release me from the marriage. I knew, I understood that it was a covenant before God, yeah, but I knew that. I was just devastated. And I heard the verse those who rise up with wings of an eagle will run and not go where they're.

Denise Jackson:

Those who wait upon the Lord.

Kate Robbins:

Yeah, yeah, I said it. No. No, you said it all.

Denise Jackson:

It's just that first part, the only reason I know that is because I feel like that was a verse that God gave me Early, when I hardly knew the word. They that wait upon the Lord will renew their strength.

Kate Robbins:

They- will mount up with wings as eagles.

Denise Jackson:

They run and not be weary, they will walk in perfect.

Kate Robbins:

And he said the eagles, they run and run and not be worried. They will walk and not faint, and I felt like that was a good sign.

Denise Jackson:

That was a sadness, yeah, and Lee was not an alcoholic, but just going through different things in our lives. You know he was not a great communicator, I over communicated a communicator, I over communicated. We just went through like periods of I was very social, he was very quiet, which is such a blessing in our lives. We once we became one instead of two, trying to go the other way. But it was really hard in the beginning of our marriage, the first years, because we just had such a hard time having time to communicate. Right, and you had all those kids we had four kids and we actually we would go. We were poor, poor. We were in college again and we weren't spending any time together and we would go.

Denise Jackson:

We finally started letting the RAs, the resident assistants, watch the kids overnight every once in a while and we'd drive an hour or something away to the Motel 6. And the whole way, kate, we would scream at each other. Well, I would scream and he couldn't escape, right, so I would scream, scream, scream and he couldn't escape, right, so I would scream, scream, scream and he'd have to talk back, right, yeah, but I was so frustrated I'd just been burying all of this stuff that I was so frustrated with him, but then we'd get to the hotel and we would make love we would dream again and we would play it on the way home and it was like, just like it was crazy, but it kept us going for a while because in our regular daily routine we couldn't talk and we couldn't deal with issues and I would just hold those things in my heart against him.

Denise Jackson:

I know he was holding things against me and we wouldn't deal with them.

Kate Robbins:

Right, right, I mean, that reminds me of a time when I think the lord just put it on my heart. We were taking a ride uh, I don't even know we were coming back from houston. I remember that and, um, we were both screaming at each other at the top, just like you're saying, and and I guess it was the lord just I said, said okay, stop, just stop. Why in the hell did you marry me in the first place? And it just took him aback and I said tell me you know, you're so angry at me Tell me why you married me in the first place. And so he started saying well, because you're beautiful, because you had a good sense of humor, we could go on hikes together. You know just statements like that. And he said so, why did you marry me? And he was still kind of coming down, but by the time I told him what I had married him, and I remember one of the things I said is because we could dream together. Yeah, and we never, ever had a fight like that again.

Denise Jackson:

Really that's what I feel like most. I don't know, I can't say we never did, but we certainly had to bless once we figured out there was so much built up that we had to start letting that go.

Kate Robbins:

So yeah, that was a blessing, yeah, and it wasn't that we never fought again, but it was, I mean, to me. I felt like we were heading towards the end. Yeah, that was it. And we never. That was never on the table.

Denise Jackson:

Yeah after that, Because you loved each other.

Kate Robbins:

Yeah, you both really loved each other when he started drinking again. But then the Lord put his doctorate and so we went through that. One pivotal time was when our son got a head injury and I feel like that was so hard for Michael because he knew that that had affected his life so much and he hated that his son's life was going to be affected and it has been affected, but it was a miracle that he lived and the doctors there was not a doctor that saw him that didn't remark on that and Jacob ended up graduating with his class From high school. From high school, yeah, and you told me earlier he loves God. He does love God. He does.

Denise Jackson:

Yeah, because that saves us in the middle of. We live in a world that's full of chaos, absolutely, and we're all in it, even if we I mean just the stuff that's been going on lately with the floods I mean it's horrible, but been going on lately with the floods I mean it's horrible, but we're in a world that's fallen and there's chaos and we're here for purpose. We always forget that in the middle of just living, we don't understand that God sent us here for purpose and not to hurt us, to bring light in the darkness. So it blesses me knowing you, know you saying he loves God and he's Jacob, I mean, and the Jacob in the Bible had some moments, oh, absolutely, but God used him so mightily. So you know, that's like it comforts me. I hope it comforts you.

Kate Robbins:

Oh, absolutely, because there's been another and I alluded to that earlier that he was in a motorcycle accident and he ended up at Dell Trauma Hospital in Austin and after he had 10 surgeries in 6 weeks and after one it's a teaching hospital and there was a whole group of students in the room and they were talking about they were going to have to do another surgery and I just was beside myself. I mean, it was very hard. It was just 3 years ago and a nurse pulled me aside and said you need to understand. When that man came into this house, none of us expected him to live. He's going to live and he's going to be okay. His head didn't get injured again, it was his lungs and his whole sternum is just chained together with metal and it looks like a railroad. It's crazy. And his face, it had to be reconstructed. But there again, I have to know and believe that God has a purpose for him. Jeremiah 29, 11 and 12. And all the plans I have for you and 12.

Denise Jackson:

So tell me You'll find him and you'll see him with all your heart.

Kate Robbins:

So that's it. That's it, and whatever happens, I don't understand what's what's going to be the end of it.

Denise Jackson:

you know that's one of the hardest things about being a mom is, you know, we, we love our children, we pour everything into them and I I watch parents now thinking you know, oh, my child could not because I was a teacher for a while, so you see that a lot. My child could never have done anything wrong. But we all do, we all fail, we all falter, we all make bad decisions in our lives and through that we find God's presence really really. And um, so once they grow up, the hardest thing is to let them go, because really, who knit them? Who called them by name before they were in our womb? Who knit them together? He knows the plans he has for them and he will complete what he's begun in their lives.

Kate Robbins:

I believe that With all of your heart, yes, with all of my heart. Well, the reality is that we can't be God for our children no. We can't be God for our husbands either, no, those are so hard, it's so hard.

Denise Jackson:

Again, we go back to this little wanting to be in control. Our flesh wants to control. Our spirit has to be letting completely go of everything, laying it before the Father so that he can pick it up and restore whatever we lose and one day, face to face. That's the thing. This is not our world. Our world is there wherever there is. It's a different place and it's where we were before and it's where we're going back to.

Kate Robbins:

Yeah, we're here on a mission. Thank you, lord. Yeah, but to get back to my bearings, yes, yeah, so there were a lot of years where there was tough times, you know. But I feel I remember one Christmas we barely had two diamonds to put together and I got a Christmas card for some dear friends and there was a check for $300 in it and I just thought how, how does this happen? Does this happen? Yeah, you know, and that was our christmas. I mean, that was yeah, yeah, and that was the christmas meal, even. You know. Yes, you did, and we made it work.

Denise Jackson:

We had something like that too. Uh, but it wasn't even somebody. A family who really had very little won the Piggly, wiggly contest. It was toys and groceries and all of that stuff and it was so much. Well, I don't know if it's so much, but they decided that they would give half to us. How lovely.

Kate Robbins:

Oh, that's precious.

Denise Jackson:

Isn't that amazing? Yes, it is. And what was really neat was my kids decided they were going to give half of what they'd gotten to another family and that family was so excited and I remember us all at Christmas Eve because we'd always have people over on Christmas Eve and all those families were there and we were playing Jenga or the kids were and they were having. It was really like one of the best Christmases, because they all understood that this was a gift that was given to them and they understood to give the gift and I just think they'll.

Kate Robbins:

I hope they always will remember that, yeah yeah, well, there's a lot of stakes in the ground that I remember through the years. That's good.

Denise Jackson:

I love that you say that.

Kate Robbins:

Yeah, helped me to know that God was with us and grew my faith. And I remember, shortly after that time, when I prayed to be released, I called a friend of mine and she was a woman that really had been. She had seven children by several different daddies, but she was wise. And I said I just don't know if I can do this anymore. And I told her that God had told me this day to wait on Him. And she said, kate, I want you to think about this. As hard as your marriage is, what has it done to your relationship with God? And what was the most powerful? They were fighting their spire. Yeah, yeah, it was one of the most powerful questions.

Denise Jackson:

Yes, that's good.

Kate Robbins:

Kate. That's really good. And so it shifted. What was her name? I can't remember, oh, they can't say it. I know what it is, that's okay. It shifted my whole paradigm. Yeah, it just, and, and that's how I viewed it so funny how when his word comes in, it does shift everything.

Denise Jackson:

Yeah, it's like, okay, now I can let go and I could receive that truth. Yeah, that's good, okay, well, we're gonna stop here, uh, but we've got a part two coming. We've got a part two coming because there's some good stuff here, but what I'd like you to do is if there's any word that you'd like to share with these women, something that you've learned that you wish they would know that we haven't already talked about. Please feel free Well.

Kate Robbins:

I would just say I would never advocate to stay in a marriage that's abusive. That would be my first just firm statement Step out, step out. Do not stay in that. Maybe step away and then God will guide you if it's time to step out. Obviously he did not guide me in that direction, but just because a marriage is hard doesn't mean it's wrong. Just because a marriage is hard doesn't mean you're not meant to stay and continue to work on it, because everywhere you go, there you are, and God uses tough marriages to refine us, as we're saying, and the reality is that I just don't know very many marriages that are easy.

Kate Robbins:

No, because the two becoming one is not easy and I think we're sort of like spirits. Is that man? I was independent. Yes, I didn't want anybody telling me what to do yeah, or demanding or not. I mean not even demanding, but just trying to weave my heart together with another person was really hard for me.

Denise Jackson:

I just feel like I want to mention right now Kate is, and has been for the last few years, a licensed professional counselor, and now she counsels remotely. So you may hear this story and think, wow, I'd like to talk to her more and you can.

Denise Jackson:

So if you want any information about that, just reach out to me, and I'm happy to talk to her more and you can. So if you want any information about that, just reach up to me and I'm happy to provide it. So thank you again for joining. Rooted in Rising Growth from the Greenhouse, I grow. As I listen to these stories of my friends, I learn I know them deeper than I've ever known them before. As I'm listening to these stories and what it's doing is building me up in my inner man to walk in this journey that God's called us to. I love you, we love you. We want you to be strong and healthy and trust in the Lord with your whole heart. I'm Denise Jackson. This is Kate Robbins. We'll see you soon.

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